I like what you said about “finding a way” to change things. It suggests challenge and a journey.

Karma, like any law, is very difficult to understand. Kind of like British law, I suppose; another one of those funny thing we Canucks inherited. Sometimes you just throw up your hands and think “crazy Brits”, but that doesn’t mean it’s not law. Karma’s like that, I think… No I don’t, I just don’t do bad things. They always bring a bad result. If I weren’t mindful, I wouldn’t know it.

I do understand karma, but I don’t think it’s a law.

There’s a downside to everything. There may be one with being known as the “the guy who kicks people who kick his dog”, but there’s a much bigger downside to “like kicking dogs? I know this one guy…”

I don’t think there there is any distinction between “ordinary” people and “those who know”, either.

Ordinary people need rules to stop them from doing bad things like kicking dogs, etc. because they don’t know. Those who know don’t need rules, they don’t kick dogs or people.

The “right things for you” are, universally, goodness and virtue. They last a lot longer than what most people think are right for them (booze, sex, etc.) and, as opposed to the latter, actually conduce to happiness.

Semantics make it difficult because “goodness” is also a “good thing”. But if by good things you mean anything accompanied by a happy feeling, that’s not goodness. Kicking dogs makes some people happy, while they do it…

While Google’s working on your request (surely…), here’s some more Pali for you (Sanskrit comes from the Brahmins):

Papopi passati bhadram
yava papam na paccati
yada ca paccati papam
atha papo papam passati.

Bhadropi passati papam
yava bhadram na paccati
yada ca paccati bhadram
atha bhadro bhadrani passati.

(Say that five times fast…)

Translation (provided by Google):

Even an evil person may still find happiness so long as his evil deed does not bear fruit; but when his evil deed does bear fruit he will meet with evil consequences.

Even a good person may still meet with suffering so long as his good deed does not bear fruit: but when it does bear fruit he will enjoy the benefits of his good deed.

(Dhp. 119-120)

We’d better be saying the same thing in the end cuz there’s only one right answer.

Over and out,

Yuttadhammo

If you’re back for another scratching then aren’t you attached to the feeling and you’re trying to avoid the inevitable that you’re going to itch? I’m just asking.

I disagree with your distinction that there are “ordinary people” and “those who know” or “goodness” and “good things”. It’s all down to your intentions, I think.

“Goodness” to me implies rules, like not drinking, never swearing, having to be loving and kind all the time and avoiding hurting other people under any circumstances. I think this definition of goodness has very little in common with doing the right thing.

If you are kind and loving to the man who is kicking your dog, then you’re not helping anyone. The man doing the kicking is already suffering - you shouldn’t be afraid of adding to it a little bit just because you think it might not be the right thing to do.

Until google comes up with an English to Sanskrit translator, I would say “happiness is the accumulation of the right things for you as long as they are not contrary to the greater good.”

Less punchy, and maybe we’re saying the same thing.

And you’re not preaching. I can always leave this website. I think. Say what you like, you’re an ordained monk in a Thai monastery, for god’s sake. Not for god’s sake, literally. For goodness’s sake. Or for the sake of good things.

There is always payback, good sir, expected or not. The simple “thank you” lasts longer than the all-tussled-up feeling. That’s why they say, “’tis better to give than receive.” They were right. Even when we do for ourselves, if our intentions are pure (not based on likes and dislikes) the result is that we feel “more inclined to go on and do the right thing in however it is you choose to live”, which is the ‘comes around’ part - a happy life.

“Peole like good things” is the law of ordinary people, and so they chase after good things and get only war and conflict. “People like goodness” is the law of those who know, so they chase after goodness and get only good things. As the saying goes, “sukho puññassa uccayo” - happiness is the accumulation of goodness. (Buddha)

Sorry for the preach… it’s an important subject.

and rispek for the title, dude.

I’ve always felt that people who do good things becaue they believe in karma are not doing their good things for the right reasons.

I believe in doing good things (and doing the right thing) simply because it’s better than the alternative.

I also occasionally do bad things and wrong things, but we’re a clumsy bunch, us humans.